We both worked on War Horse at The National Theatre, and off the back of that show there was this question of, “where can puppetry go now? It feels like it's really peaked!” But it was a great future test because it was the first time an audience had been asked, in a mainstream popular show populated by actors, to invest in a puppet as a protagonist, one who is on that stage the whole time and who doesn’t speak. I think we both really wanted more stories that have puppets at the centre, and we were fortunate that lots of theatres were hungry for that. We're also aware of the need to consistently ask how the form can keep surprising people. The fact is that you have people on stage who are there, but not there; so how can you use that to your advantage? A lot of the work we have done recently has been more abstract, with fewer clear-cut conventions. We’re becoming more experimental with the role of the puppeteer and how involved they are, or how they can step out and comment on the action. That’s something that, both as a company and as separate artists, we’re playing with. We can afford to be a bit trippier and more playful.

Audiences are really used to puppets. It’s a currency now that people believe in and sometimes even expect to see. We're now trying to imagine the next level that puppetry can reach. Weirdly, I feel like it's evolving to reflect a more primitive form. In my opinion, puppetry gets stronger when it exposes its bare bones. It’s like good acting—the less you do, the more you invite the audience in. For me, some of the most absorbing moments I’ve witnessed have been bits of a carrier bag or newspaper, used so well in their abstract form that you can make a complete story out of them. If puppetry can stay that front-footed and confident in its own form, it'll outlast us all.

sM | One of the most astonishing moments you can witness as an audience is when the actor behind the puppet disappears from the collective consciousness, and the puppet stands, breathes, and lives for itself. How difficult is it to find actors capable of bringing puppets to life in this way, and what do you look for?

TO — It truly varies from project to project. You have shows like War Horse where you want people to completely disappear and give the entirety of their energy and focus to the puppet. And then there's a long sliding scale, leading all the way up to The Lion King and Avenue Q where you have a “double event,” someone performing alongside their puppet, both playing the character and sharing it.

I think whatever quality or skill set you're looking for in a performer, at the centre it's purely about their ability to immerse themselves in the imaginative act of play, and their investment in the thing that they're operating. Some people disappear more quickly than others. A lot of performers learn early on that they need to do less with their face, because if the actor is portraying each emotion and the puppet’s face doesn't move, then your attention as an audience will be drawn to the nearest living thing—to a living thing. It's often an exercise in stripping away the “self” and putting the intention and focus on the puppet. Being free and playful enough, and willing to play the games that we all play when we're kids, is so important. That childlike sentiment is pivotal, “I'm not here. This thing in my hand? That’s the living thing.”

sM | What’s next for you?

TO — I'm currently working on a new stage version of George Orwell’s Animal Farm, adapted and directed by Robert Icke. That’s going to open in the UK and tour from January. It has 35 life-size animals, and every character that is not a human is a life-size puppet, so it's easily the most puppet-centric show I have done! I’m also working on the first ever stage adaptation of the Studio Ghibli film Spirited Away, which opens in Japan at the end of February. Every other character is a puppet or a mask or something; there’s a truly huge database of techniques being used. They’re two of the most ambitious projects I’ve had yet, and they are right on top of each other!